But RE: “The economic and political benefits of good relations with Russia is more obscure, but from a security perspective, ending the war and becoming cordial once again would be an dream for NATO.” – I can only wonder at the logic which tells us to make friends with not only the current war criminal in the Kremlin but with a people and culture which has been retarded continuously for eleven hundred years.

A nation which "traditionally" accepts killing off thousands if not millions of it's most remote and disadvantaged people.

Anyone who's seen recent videos of "Russian conscripts" who've lived their lives so far from the civilized centers that they have never learned to tie shoe laces has to be shocked to realize those same individuals will soon face death in the Ukraine. You mention the "80,000 casualties" - which just happens to be 25,000 more than the U.S. lost in the Viet Nam war in TEN YEARS, not nine months. Lets also consider that the US population is double that of Russia.

I don't believe NATO nations are "dreaming" of friendship with this barbaric nation especially with its unending parade of autocratic leaders. The real "tradition" is for those inside Russia who truly wish to live in a real civilization to flee Russia as fast as they can.

Their civilized nature is obscured in the morass of Russian homicidal culture and ideology. So they have no reason other than sentimentality for remaining there. NATO's dream and that of the European Union can be more pragmatic because those nations can absorb the immigration of decent people who were simply born in the wrong place.

Lets just leave the garbage in the garbage can.

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Jack R. Noel

Everything from business executive to grocery clerk and published writer. Now retired and able to get back to my first love: writing.